[Carl Russell]

A few thoughts have come to me lately. I remember being skeptical about the foundation under these horses when reading your experiences. Recently I’ve had some insight I think worth sharing.

I have a team of 15 yearold’s that I am transitioning away from. I have a local couple who has been working with me and boarded my new team during 2015. The plan has been for them to take over the older team.

The bays were at a high point in functionality during the fall, and I had high expectations for a very smooth transfer. We moved them to the new farm in December with the idea that I would work them there with the new owners to get out their wood in exchange for their boarding the other horses. Also a custom sawlog harvest of 20mbf would give us time for good teamster and husbandry training.

The projects have all gone well, some of which has been just me getting logging done because it has been challenging terrain, timber cutting, and weather of course.

The pertinent part is that these horses fell apart when they first moved there. I was astonished at the anxiety and foolish behavior. I have had them off the farm before, so I really didn’t want to accept that they would be that put out by the move, but after 3 months of working them there, I am convinced of it.

I am a pretty consistent routinist, so having them off site must have rocked their world. I was also not taking care of them in the early AM as usual, or on days off. They were not trying to kill anybody, but they were at times too much for novices to handle.

At any rate now that we have had 3 months of semi regular rigorous work, including integration of the new teamsters, they are once again pretty much rockstars. Of course they are horses and unpredictable, and there is no computer chip that warantees anything….

Just thought it was an interesting perspective. I know most teams and teamsters don’t get a three month transition from one farm and teamster to another, but my experience goes a long way to explain why some good horses get a bad name in some transitions.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Rick, the model I will be using moving forward is similar. As a consultant I have authority to act as supervising agent for the LO. I intend to oversee contracts between individual operators and the LO, so that the basic breakdown that you describe can be executed legally.

I have a method that has served me and my clients well for years in hiring operators to conduct forest improvement harvest services at a flat rate per Mbf. In this fashion each section of a timber sale can be jobbed out to a single operator, or team of cooperators. Any other entity such as a forwarder operator can be either contracted by individual operators, or fall under the broader timber sale agreement as an entirely independent operator contracted by the LO.

This way I can lay out expectations and directives within the contract and my authority as overseer so that those actions will not be misconstrued to represent employment, even if I am one of the operators with my team in my own section. Also I will be responsible for marketing and setting rates to ensure that operators can afford to perform the improvement work that is the basis of the forest management. In other words, LO loses money on pulp and fuelwood (at least in the context of the conventional view of stumpage values), but make up for it on high value material, while operators are profitable regardless of the value of material, so that these operations actually leave improved timberland in their wake.

I have two adjacent properties that will need such a harvest during 2016. In May I will begin marking the timber, laying out sections, and looking for operators. Species include red spruce, white pine, and assorted hardwoods. It is not a dry landscape, so conditions and markets will need to be appraised before complete details can be pulled together, but it seems reasonable to expect a late summer/early fall dry season harvest. There is enough territory, 50+/-acres, to accommodate 3-4 teams of horses, with appropriate cutter/teamster configurations, and a forwarder. The lay of the land is moderate in most sections, but it is Vermont, so it’s either uphill, downhill, or both, rocky, steep, and wet in places…..and 1/2 mile from roadside landing.

There may be reasonable accommodations for animals that need to be left on-site, or nearby….. As far as this playing into an association, I will let that take its own course. As I wrote before, I am more interested in perfecting the services that I provide for my clients. I will work with whomever can help me to raise that bar. If that interaction builds a foundation for association, great…. Either way, I will have more such operation coming down the pipeline on a regular basis.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I guess the unclear part of what I wrote is that I am no longer interested in trying to reach students, as much as I am interested in excelling at my own rate.

The challenge for me is not to grow the culture through providing education, but to grow as a craftsman myself.

I have reached the point where I know that I will get more out of what I know, than anyone else can. And I know from a lot of experience that allowing someone to drive my horses, or to cut trees, is a frivolous benefit that I can only afford in rare situations. Not some much because I cannot make money, but because I am not doing the work that I need to do to be the complete craftsman I aspire to be.

These comments were not to dismiss other approaches, but to explain how I will be applying myself as we move forward.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

So I have a few thoughts about the training component. I am an educator at heart. Even in my forestry consulting business, I am more of a LO educator than an agent for hire.

That being said, I have found that practicing a craft like this one while trying to educate is not fulfilling. Over the last 10 years I have put a lot of time into organizing and offering opportunity for folks to learn and share the craft. Organizing and educating in the modern context are very distracting from actually performing the craft.

I have found that most of my time working as an educator ends up hovering around novice execution. There is a lot of interest at the introductory level, but little growth there.

While I remain in support of these initiatives, I have found myself needing to perform at a higher level, where I can challenge myself to grow and advance. When I think of the men I learned from, I realize that they didn’t reduce their level of performance to accommodate me. I had to stay out of their way, learn how to help, and keep up.

It is the example they set for me, rather than the specifics they taught. I have found that it is the best education I can offer too. It does me no good, and does the novice little good, for me to spend hours every day allowing them to learn to drive a team of horses in my logging operation. When we do this kind of work we are diluting the real opportunity to see the capabilities that years of work and understanding can bring to the use of draft animals.

That realization has driven me to reassert myself toward more commercial work, and to set the best example of what I know about doing this business. That does not mean that I do not work with novices, or that I will isolate myself, but I know that I need to use the resources I have gathered in a more effective way…. And I know that by doing that I can be the best example I can be for anyone who wants to learn from me.

I am coming to the end of a custom timberframe harvest where I had the help of an advanced novice with chainsaw and horse experience, on a farm where the owners may become owners of my current team. I have been putting these renewed principles to the test. For the mostpart it has been a production operation. Using the Barden cart does allow for folks to ride with me, so they can get firsthand experience without having to drive, or really be in the way.

It has been challenging weather, on challenging terrain, with big timber, long skids, and unprecedented unpredictable winter weather, so I have been challenged at a high level to put my animals, and myself through some tough situations…. Certainly beyond the scope of experience of my companions. From my perspective, I feel really good about applying myself at that level, and I feel that they all have gained immeasurably because they have been able to witness the kinds of things that I witnessed as I was forming my vision of my own future doing this work.

This is all to say that I think that allowing beginners to start at a novice level, provides a novice perspective….. My experience is that it sets up the practitioner with unrealistic expectations. As we build this craft, I think we most effectively build it with a higher introductory entry.

I personally am less interested in finding ways to associate, and more interested in finding ways for us to excel at our craft. I have used, and will continue to use, the cooperative model for all the reasons that have been discussed to make animal powered harvesting more proficient in the conventional context. To some extent volunteer contribution can fit into that model too, but my emphasis will be on the execution of the craft, using the combined resources to rise above the normal expectations.

I think that there are glass ceiling to crash in many aspects of this work, from horsemanship to forestry, and pushing the envelope is where I will be putting my energy in the next ten years.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Brad and others, I also find this idea interesting, but find it difficult to work on at the same time we are running small businesses.

From my vantage point I see a steady growth of good practitioners throughout the region. I expect that there are some good reasons why association would be beneficial, not the least of which would be networking and the a coordination of more power to make the method more feasible in conventional terms.

I personally am ramping up my logging operation to accomplish more of the forestry activities that I have prescribed in plans for clients. That will also include more coordination and collaboration with other animal powered operators, which I also hope will help build the culture.

From my previous delving into this issue I found that the missing link is funding. Many such organizations grow from a grant that can fund the work of an organizer.

I have a lot of work lined up, and I see great opportunities to expand…… Not to more horses or equipment, but in building out the craft and the demand for the craft beyond my own operation. I have begun to develop draft animal harvesting plans to compliment forest management plans, so that LO can see how draft animals can be effective at accomplishing their goals. Beyond the financial realities of the logging industry, that is the weakest link I see. Most LO and nearly every forester have no idea how to apply draft animals to forestry, and therefore the expectations are unrealistic.

Anyway, that is what I will be working on. I am very supportive of the association idea, but I don’t have the time or resources to commit at this time for organizing. I would be glad to contribute to an effort to find funding so that someone else could be paid to put in he time.

I’m pleased to hear your enthusiasm Brad.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I am having a really difficult time trying to think of a reason why starting with two horses makes sense as a novice in your position. It sounds like you are at such a basic level that just making decisions about husbandry are a quandary. Perhaps there are some advantages to having two horses for power, or for convenience regarding equipment, or even possibly for confidence as a team, but what I see is you facing this from the very bottom.

A single horse can become accustomed to any situation you place them in. Stop thinking about this from the horse’s perspective. You need to come up with cash to buy the animal, equip it, and care for it. You need to begin to develop the routine for care and work. These are huge and while it is basically nearly as easy to do this for two, it is far too often a recipe for failure.

I am not saying it cannot be done, but I believe that as a beginner you have significant responsibility to the animals, and to the culture at large. Almost to a person, the folks I know who started out with one horse, a harness, and a singletree, are still working their animals and doing amazing work. However I can list many who bought a team and all the fixings before they even knew how to pick up a foot, who ended up with challenge after challenge, publicly displaying the worst of what it means to have working horse on a small farm, to eventually end up a a testimonial to why animal power is a choice of the past.

As Donn says, there may be some aspects of comraderie that assist the working, but the second animal can bring more expense, more attention required, and more responsibility right off the bat. These are the things that wear down the value of the animal power system, and they can make or break the future of your choice.

I think there are some great reasons to set up a single horse farm, like Brad described, but that is different than starting out. I think a single horse farm is something that grows out of the mind of an experienced horse person who knows how to use a single horse effectively. There are many reasons why having more than one horse makes sense, not the least of which is that you have two singles, but as I wrote before there is a difference between doing the work and having working animals.

My own personal experience was scraping together enough money to buy horse, harness, and singletree. It took a while of trials to determine the best stalling, watering, and general caring practices. Vet bills and farrier services, and feed were all paid for through other sources of income…. The horse was not making me any money. I eventually made the transition to where the horse was actually part of an income stream, and within a year I had enough money for a second horse, and the equipment to make the upgrade. I also had the knowledge that I could utilize that investment in a useful and functional way.

In other words, I think that there is a foundation that needs to be built if animal power is going to be successful on your farm. There may be people with experience and means who can buy what they need and put it to work. I am not hearing that from you. As I wrote when I began, other folks I know who began like you, including myself, who used the single horse, low investment, flexible integration method are still going strong. It would be my suggestion that you continue to seriously consider that approach as well.

Good luck, Carl

[Carl Russell]

I was going to say that it may have as much to do with line adjustment, or alignment between evener and neckyoke, especially if it is just one side on one horse…..

I have never been too concerned about it… you can tell the horse has been worked…

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Try this. It was direct from my computer on Firefox. I sized it down to 36kb and then again at 495kb…

• This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by Carl Russell.

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[Carl Russell]

Sorry pics were too big…you can delete those posts…

[Carl Russell]

I purchased a good 2×8 in December with shittons of enthusiasm, but now I am pretty confident that this will be a good season to hold off.

I’ll have to wait and see. I guess I’m just having a hard time with the variability of this season. I have already seen sap flowing from maples we have cut, and twigs are green, and there is no frost in the ground, and the trees have already fulfilled their dormancy requirements, so I think it may be fast and furious and unproductive.

Maybe I need some more sleep.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Kind of amazing to say, but I’m willing to shovel stumps if I had 18″ of snow just to cover the terrain…….. As long as there was temps to make it last a few weeks.

That bulletproof concrete-like ground is worst than ice. I just have Driltex on the caulks of pulling shoes, but they have a lot better purchase on ice than on the concrete.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Yes very frustrating. I have worked outdoors year-round for most of my adult life, and I have to agree with Mitch that about 10 years ago the averages began to change. The challenge now is there seems to be no new normal… It’s all over the place.

For years we would plan on good cold by the end of October, frozen ground by the end of November, and good solid logging condition from December through March. Of course there were fall mud seasons, and January thaws, but they were temporary setbacks. Now it seems we have fall mud seasons and January thaws with temporary winter weather.

I worked many Decembers in subzero temps, and while we always had one or two heavy snow storms, we generally could count on the 6-10 inch storms on semi regular frequency, not waiting all winter and getting some absurd 2 foot dump. At least this winter it has been relatively easy to get around, and not having to shovel trees is great.

The last two weeks I’ve been pulling hemlock and spruce on a bobsled 1/2 mile off some tough terrain. There are patches of mud, open ground frozen like concrete, snowy patches, and ice all on the same trail. The ground is very steep in places, and without snow the loads slide sideways a lot without a natural burm of frozen snow. I have a few hundred feet of sawlogs spread all along the trail as bumpers to keep us headed in the right direction.

The biggest problem I have run into is that I cannot move these big loads without bridle chains to control descent. With the variable ground conditions I have found places where the chains cut into earth in the midst of ice, and we are grounded. Pinning good horses when they are moving 5-6000 pounds of wood is a bad precedent. It has happened every one of the last 5 loads I’ve taken, and they are beginning to lose their resolve.

I end up under the side of the load with a peavey prying and digging under the runner to release enough tension to make them believe they can move it again….. But I cannot afford to disengage the chain completely as we are in the midst of ground where there is no way to hold back that much weight…..

I mean, I’m cut out for this. I didn’t chose logging with horses because I thought it was a smooth ride, but this I can do without.

My biggest frustration is that with this work I do not have many options to moderate load size. I have to pull at least 500 feet each trip, and to watch a team go from scraping and digging, to testing and fainting is disheartening when it has nothing to do with them, and I have no control over the conditions…

Anyway, maybe we’ll get some better conditions this week….

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I always just paid a local trucker by the hour to load the poles for me. Just need room for the truck with the loader and the trailer to park side by side.

Carl

• This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by Carl Russell.

[Carl Russell]

When you say poles, do you mean like utility poles? Scots pine, if it grows straight, makes great utility poles. It is the species that the CCA pressure treatment was developed on. However in US most varieties have very weak leaders which leads to curvy growth, which is inferior for poles.

About the most active utility pole market I know of in the NE is E & F Wood in Woodstock Valley, CT. Hans Frankhouser (860) 377-0601 e.f.wood@hotmail.com http://efwoodweb.com/index.htm

I am pretty sure that Brad Johnson spoke to the log buyer within the last few months.

Otherwise some mills or concentration yards that buy red pine sawlogs will also buy Scots pine, again if the logs are straight.

Otherwise, as Rick says, chipwood or pulp is about your only hope.

BTW, don’t plan on paying much if anything for stumpage on anything less than utility poles. Market value for these products is barely adequate to cover logging costs. Utility poles usually pay 2-3x what sawlogs are worth.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

That’s great Jared, then I think it is just a matter of using those techniques enough on large trees to learn to trust them. What I was getting at is that you should be able to repeat those cuts with exactly the same results on very big straight-grained trees.I personally have felled large ash and oak using exactly the same dimensional measurements as with smaller trees.

Some things to remember would be to trim off any butt swell at the hinge, as divergent grain can actually cause splitting. Also, not so much at the felling cut, but felling in general, try to fell forked trees so that they fall with both arms laying on the landing surface. Forks that land on one branch first, or that catch one branch laterally in another crown, can split very quickly.

Carl

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