[dominiquer60]

Yes I noticed that they disappeared a while ago, before the ads came back.

[dominiquer60]

If he is attacking the salt more than the others he may be deficient in something else and consuming too much salt in the process? Ours were wood chewers until we started giving them free choice minerals along with white salt. Even if he is deficient in something, the line chewing has become habit and solving any potential deficiency will likely not solve the problem without correcting his behavior.

Just out of curiosity what type of bit do you have in him and how does he respond to it?

[dominiquer60]

Thanks so much for sharing your story with us. It is great to hear that the forum has been so useful to you, that is one of the reasons why it was started, to share information and to help folks find what they need be good teamsters. Congratulations on your successful first transition year! Best of luck and keep in touch.
Erika

[dominiquer60]

Reva Seybolt is a good person to ask. Soundness is the key. A good vet will already have a regular pre-purchase routine, and will examine all of the basics. You will have to decide if you you want to pay for x-rays (mainly for arthritis or problems in the legs). A flexion test (flex each limb and trot of for soundness) will tell of some problems, they may be temporary or long term, but it is hard to tell without x-rays for support. A horse can pass a flexion test but may have some serious arthritis in the feet, you don’t want serious arthritis in an 8 year old. A horse that fails a flexion test may just have a minor issue causing him to have a bad day, he may x-ray clean as a whistle and be a great horse that just needs a couple weeks recovery, but gets passed on because he failed flexion.

I know that Reva was mostly interested in the X-rays, because so many problems can be cured or improved upon with treatment and time. In the end if a young horse has poor x-rays they will cost you more in the long run and have a shorter working life expectancy.

You should not use the owners vet, it is a conflict of interest. Do a search online or ask around places like here or our facebook group for suggested vets in the area, especially equine vets. Sometimes the owners vet is the only vet that covers that area, then maybe you don’t have a choice, but you can take any x-rays to your own vet and have them interpret them for you. In fact, if you get x-rays done it is always good to have your vet look at them too, they will have to help you with any shortcomings the animals may have.

I don’t have prices, but start by asking your vet, then you will have a ball park figure.

[dominiquer60]

Jay,

Mark did not warn you that Maple is a highly addictive habit, both its production and consumption. Sam wants you to know that it is as bad, if not worse than the horse habit.

Maple On!

Erika 🙂

[dominiquer60]

I agree with separate stabling/paddock set ups for the 3 groups bull-cows-steers. A small freestall run in for the cows sounds like a good set up if you have the room for such. If you have room for a box stall/pen it is nice for calving or infirmary. I would prefer to have my oxen in straight stalls when they are inside. At the moment we have 4 pair (bovine equine) and 4 box stalls. Our turnouts have limited shelter, so when the weather is wicked we bring all 8 inside and tie everyone up in their own corner, it is the closest that we can do to having straight stalls. In this manner their is less competition over food and the bedding is better utilized when compared to 2 animals loose in the same stall.

We have also been thinking about barn layout. Recently it has been day dreaming of ways to turn 2 of the box stalls into 4 straight stalls and improve the work flow of our barn. Just last week we came up with at good stall arrangement that includes being able to add a door that connects the shed to the barn so that we don’t have to open the big gate to let horses in or out of the barn. It also allows for a sawdust bin to be added to the front of the barn, one that can be filled with the front loader (main pile is down to the dairy barn in a truck box). With the new lay out we will still have 2 box stalls that open to a small paddock, but we will also have the ease of straight stalls, and many other efficiencies.

For training, I really like to incorporate tying young stock up for part of the day, and straight stalls are perfect for such a thing. It gives them time to relax while being restrained to one area. They get used to yielding to the rope/neck strap/halter and accepting of the situation. A straight stall is a great place to teach manners such as setting over to let you to the manger or to clean a side of the stall. It is a good place to groom and pick up feet. Leading young animals to and from turn out (even if it is only several feet to freedom), is a good way to enforce manners and your leadership position on a daily basis.

Best wishes finding the right combination for your situation.

[dominiquer60]

Jay,
I shared this on facebook (without the phone number) to stimulate other to share their Spring educational event. I hope you don’t mind.
Erika

[dominiquer60]

Farm Family covers my vegetable “farm” under a special gentleman farm type of package, my agent tells me at my size it is cheaper that way and I don’t own the land or infrastructure which are already insured by them through Sam and Family. If my animals were to inadvertently harm someone on the farm the people are covered, if my animals drop dead from lightning, the animals are not covered. It is minimal for sure, but I really don’t plan on using my insurance unless there is a fire or theft, or god forbid someone gets hurt. I could have them insured for off farm events, but it costs more to insure 2 humble oxen than it cost Sam to off farm insure 6 horses, so to heck with it, on the farm they stay. I also have renters and product liability insurance through Farm Family. They don’t give me any trouble about “equine exposure” and crop production. Evan, was your former agency worried about “equine exposure” to the crops or to people? Sam’s parents under their own farm policy are covered for ‘equine exposure’ for people that we may give rides to (on farm) or trespassers that wander up the road from the ice cream stand. The horses are on their property so that gives them a degree of protection from stupidity, not much, but a little.

[dominiquer60]

I am not a fan of insurance period, but modern times call for such nonsense, Farm Family insures our menagerie of businesses. What state are you in?

[dominiquer60]

This would be a good one to go back home for, but so much is going on that week. I am very glad to see that David Yarrow is still at it, what a guy. I first met him at my father’s place in Knox, then last saw him at Saratoga Apple 10 years ago. We were picking up pumpkin fragments after someone hit Nate’s pumpkin display next to the road. Great folks, makes me miss Washington County all the more.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by dominiquer60.

[dominiquer60]

I think that yours have it good Ed, to have the choice of where they would like to be, is ideal to me. If we had a similar situation to the scale of our herd, that would save us a lot of trouble keeping them all in the barn. But on the flip side we are making a lot of good manure to compost for the garden. There are pros and cons to all situations.

Erika

[dominiquer60]

Our horses and steers live out side most of the year with access to a couple of sheds. They do not have access to good sheltering woods and the sheds have their limits during blizzards. The steer’s shed is a great place for them but at this point I can’t even get to their shed to feed them out of the wind. Last year they stayed out all winter, but I have lost count of how many times we brought them in this year. We have 4 box stalls and 8 animals so we tie everyone up in their own corner and this allows us to make sure that everyone is getting ample food and water. We have been bringing them in during Blizzard or low wind chill conditions, our barn is open to the south and there is plenty of ventilation. Mostly though it is easy to sleep knowing that the wind doesn’t blow away half of every mouth full of hay that they take, and that the are well hydrated.

I agree with Brad that feeding them well and watching their condition plus attitude is key.
With thick coats I am always touching them to see what their condition is like underneath it all. Are they flabby? Can I feel too much rib? Even in this cold weather we have 2 older horses on limited (pint of grain) rations and the other 2 get considerably more and are not loosing weight, the younger mares and oxen have gotten fat and I have cut them back. Let there be no doubt about it, grain doesn’t make animals warm (old folk lore), water and a good quality hay fermenting in their bellies is the best way to keep them through the worst of it. On colder nights we feed extra hay to all, especially if they are not leaving a trace of the previous meal.

Attitudes are important, do they seem content and willing to work or partake in a general routine? If you “listen” they will tell you a lot about their lives. There is no doubt that as cramped as the quarters are, ours would rather be inside during the bad weather. We tried feeding them one questionable night, they ignored the hay feeder and just stood at the gate to be let in.

Like Brad, for us blankets are for when transporting, cooling down or resting at work.

[dominiquer60]

The price range this year for “broke” draft teams is anywhere from next to nothing for a rescue/retrain, to $26,000 for 5yo grade Percheron “farm” geldings (non-show stock at Waverly). Older horses can be great workers as long as you keep them healthy, fit, and learn their limits. Sam’s older team is 16 and 18, they worked all last summer in the field and were conditioned for a little farm pull in the fall. If you really like this team I would certainly spend more time with this pair and have them vetted. A little money up front can halt a purchase that takes the cost of maintaining them through the roof. At their age I would pay particular attention to teeth and joints, I would expect some arthritis at their age, but if too much is found, $4k may be too pricey for their condition. If they pass a vet check with flying colors, they could be worth every penny if you are going to get them into condition gradually. There is a drug commercial on TV that states,”A body in motion tends to stay in motion.” I agree with this for both ourselves and our animals.

[dominiquer60]

Here is what past participants have to say:

“I found Sam’s plowing clinic to be extremely useful/helpful for me and my horses. I had enough experience already to be able to absorb Sam and Erika’s pointers and info without having to focus on how to drive. I brought a plow that needed new handles and we set it up properly, then we went out and worked on hitching up correctly and then plowing. I learned so much. It was great!!! All of us can learn and improve our own skill from concentrated time with other teamsters who have specialized in a particular area of skill. (An old dog can learn new tricks!)” Jay Bailey 2013 DAPNet Plow Clinic

“Though it wasn’t simple to get my horses, plow, and myself to the clinic, it was work well worth doing. I was not aware of just how much work my old Oliver 23 two way plow needed, so much of the time was dedicated in the shop to shoring up the wheels to minimize play, laying out the beams and shares the correct distances, and getting everything moving smoothly. I went home with a brand new plow! Though Sam is immensely skilled in the shop, I would recommend getting your plow in great shape yourself as the time spent in the field was invaluable. Seeing the possibilities of a calm quiet team and well adjusted plow guided by a skilled teamster while watching Sam plow was inspiring. Having the chance to take my hand at it with his guidance opened up the possibilities in myself. Working with the process of observation of the team, the plow, and myself and then making one small adjustment at a time, with wise feedback and guidance, helped foster new capabilities in myself and my team that I still carry in my work. Besides the gifts that Sam shared, the community experience was wonderful and everyone had something to share, whether it be a simple pointer or suggestion about working with the horses or equipment or great conversation, a meal, or a song. The hospitality was very warm and welcoming. The different types of plows, horses, and people represented was diverse and also quite educational, as there is no one way to do it. Even if you can’t get your own team and plow out there, if you do any plowing and want to know a bit more and perhaps improve your skills I recommend attending.”

– Anthony Mecca 2012 DAPNet Plow Clinic

[dominiquer60]

Will we would love to have you. Auditors/Teamsters that bring a dish to pass and are paying for Saturday are welcome Friday after 3pm. We have endless space for rough camping (tent or any vehicle), a hay loft, and a sugar house to choose from. If we don’t get any participants that bring a plow, we will use something from our own collection as a talking point Friday. At the moment we are hoping that we don’t have to use the May rain date as a snow date, some of our big piles are going to be around for a while :). Thankfully we have many acres to choose from.

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