[Droverone]

I wouldn’t work them where they live
I don’t work them where they live

I would not let them live with the herd one more day longer than is absolutely nessesary
I do not let them live with the herd one more day longer than is absolutely nessesary

I would tie them somewhere, anywhere and make them totally unequivocally dependent on u for everything they need! Until you see some significant progress in training for a period of time.
I do tie them somewhere, anywhere and make them totally unequivocally dependent on me for everything they need! Until you see some significant progress in training for a period of time.

I would do everything in my abilities to see to it that they get anything they need, nutritionally.
I always do everything in my abilities to see to it that they get anything they need, nutritionally.
Always
Everything

Howie and Bud and many others told me years ago the first year is so important to a calf nutritionally, you cannot replace what they loose that first year.

Additionally I believe mentally, the bond of dependancy is integral to establish the solid foundation that leads you thru the steer years and into a reliable ox or oxen……

[Droverone]

” I end up walking more freely out in front. I do not know if this is good, bad, or indifferent. “

Anything that enables you to perform tasks easier and without incumbencies, whether it be time or energy for you and your team is a GREAT thing!

By “using” your cattle and utilizing their power, you will naturally evolve in your team work, and the ability to metamorphasize your experiences into tools for future task, is what makes great teams and better teamsters.

I enjoy my teams abilities to go from either side and the front as well as the back, teaming from any position is what makes life easier for any tasks completion.

[Droverone]

No no and no!

Now is the time!

Make your mark on them while they are young! There is nothing harder to deal with than a herd sour, barn sour OX!

Go go and go! further and stay away longer!

In fact it would be better if they were completely away from anyone other than you and each other.

[Droverone]

So was the spotting as hard as before or did the tool help a lot?
Are you stitching a back on the head pad?

[Droverone]

My bale mover is a peerless that’s nearly identical in design and is identical in function

[Droverone]

Well thanks for the link
But I have to agree that there is no reason for them
And control is not maintained completely with a nose appliance.

[Droverone]

It has got to be some east Asian practice because you rarely see it practiced anywhere else, oh no I’m incorrect, you an also see it when people think they need to drive cattle with reins because after 40 years of working cattle, and I don’t mean “old partner” , they cannot learn to train cattle to be driven from behind without reins and nose clamps!

Maybe andy can get his father to teach a short course on driving oxen from behind without reins !

[Droverone]

I measured mine and it’s 9.5 inches on the pad an 11 inches between the irons

[Droverone]

I have a “Mittelfränkisches Stirnjoch”

I could measure it and it is at least in country, although I am not in VT, if that would help any.

[Droverone]

Andy, your not playing fair, although your closer to his hiding place then the rest of us are!
Bet your glad to be home!

And I have pictures of Ross farms stocks, they were shoeing there the day I was there visiting with the blacksmith.

[Droverone]

The slings at Ross farm museum, in nova scotia are very simply utilitarian and the best old style s so I would try and get pictures of those. I have a set based on bud kluchniks design, and I like them, but with steel the price it is today I would not build another set out of steel.

[Droverone]

Well I was hoping Howie might chime in here.

It looks like there might need to be a little more shaping to the neck seats in these pictures.

What equation did you use to build your yoke? Since you said it was too narrow.

My little Herefords are as fat as anything and I never thought of widening a yoke because of that.

One of the things that seems to be rampant is the distance between the steers, or the distance between the inside bows, what equation is the that you use to find this distance when you make our yokes?

Here’s how mine are working in the yoke the third time and the first time on the cart

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NQBFB8AXXE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Droverone]

Ok here goes

It was related to me through several sources that the bows need to fit, and I mean fit. One of the biggest mistakes is generalization that infintisimal adjustments are not needed, and I believe that is wrong. That yoke needs to catch young animals correctly and precisely so as not to irritate or make them not want to work, additionally if it does not they learn to get away from work or get out of work.

If I wanted a working team to have the power they needed to work, I would want them to be able to get up underneath that load and lift it to move that load. If I had a high headed steer I would want to look and see if that bow was low and catching him late and riding back to his shoulder and pinching him, making him raise his head, which to me would make him want to haul out, or at least appear to haul out because of the angle he is working against.

If I had a low headed steer I would want to see if the bow was tight and catching him sooner making him throw his head down, or appearing to be low headed. Find a balance that allows you to enable the learning process of teaching them to lift hat load and move it comfortabley. Low bows are one of the most common sight I observe in photos. Tighten the bows up and make them fit.

Spacers are important to making bows fit and making small adjustments matters. Extra spacers are cheap!

Look closely, experiment cautiously and move foward deliberately.

[Droverone]

Have you checked your bow height adjustment?

Where is it hitting the low headed one on his neck?

Tighten up the high headed ones bow also sometimes helps

This too will pass……

[Droverone]

Well then simply go to a seven, better to be snug then loose. Think of a loose shoe it makes sores so small increments would be wiser then large ones, I would rather make or buy a yoke than doctor a sore steer.

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