[lancek]

sounds too me if they are willing to keep pulling and all vital signs are normal you have nothing to worry about ! They will let you know by balking our hanging there head and breathing heavy if they are being over worked!

[lancek]

Taylors right about what hes saying and there again the only way of doing this is by getting a collation up to show we have numbers ! And when I say numbers I mean large ones so that would mean teaming up with other organisations that have a like minded ideas,

[lancek]

well that is one thing nice about mo you can have up to five employs on a job without workmen’s comp ! They are pretty progressive in that way, but they are 30 years behind in the way they manage forest down here!

[lancek]

Taylor you are absolutely right it is a shame but the insurance company’s have done this to make sure there bets are hedged ! And as with everything else our generation has been led by the nose and every body has been told that this is the way to protect them selfs, And we like sheep fall for it ! And the only way you are going to stop it is too with hold there money till they give in but nobody is willing to do the hard thing and grope together to do this !

[lancek]

Rick makes a good point even in a contract situation its best to require work comp on anybody that is working with you some insurance company’s and logging organisations that are self insured will give you temporary workers comp for sub contractors that you hire on!

[lancek]

Wonderful vid Jason I concur that we need more of this type of information out there!

[lancek]

I respectfully disagree I think with the mass of people such as the ones that are on this site can disprove the years of of mis information thats out there then maybe there wouldn’t be so many eager to prove you wrong! And thats the problem I for one was totally content with using horses after I left Sterling collage but when I returned too the mid west and tried fowling my craft I was laughed into submission and started thinking that big machinery and high volume were the only way to log! Now seeing that the damage that I done even though I was very careful when machine harvesting I know how wrong I was. So all these new people and those that want to join the ranks and are staying out there in the shadows because of the fear that if they expose there igneronce to us or the fact that they want to indulge in our culture but are afraid because of the fact that the modern world would think that they were fools to operate in such an old fashion way that they chose not to do it

[lancek]

But if we want to expanded and encourage are craft we also need to be teachers ! And to do that you cant hide your head in the sand you must engage in these conversations and no you wont be able to convince everybody but if you just convert a few then you have a better chance of keeping the craft alive!
Not only that but the real problem is that corporate America has done such a good job of desinforming everyone that draft power is out of date that people feel that this is true because so many of them have no idea of what we do!
Do we not owe it too our craft too despell these misconceptions and hopefuly get more usefull knowalge out there

[lancek]

Now see guys here is a new money making opportunity the next big snow or Ice storm head too town find the the biggest hill and set up your rigging and of couse poor some water on too the street to make sure you have good and slick and you might get repeat buisness and wait till the frist idiot comes screaming over the hill and wipes out then you can collect a 250.00 tow bill and all the city folks will be glade to pay it because it was such a quaint way of being towed !::eek::D:D

[lancek]

Hey near horse your post were quite appropriate and yes I started this post, but there again I feel that the more we start listing on other sites the more we may be able too get people too see what we are really about!
And yes when folks start out with a certain mind set it is difficult to win them over too your view, but if by desc using your view and trying too persuade them into seeing your point of view you may win them over but at the very least you will hopefully enlighten others that are reading your information that there are two sides too a story and let them make up there minds on what they want too believe!
Jac we need to be laid back with the horses and sing our praises to the general public!:D

[lancek]

Well the point that I had tried too make was that the compaction was not as big of a deal as the amount of regeneration that was destroyed in the process of moving the machine! And that high grading the woods was more deter mental than anything! I would also like too see a study between mechanical operation and a high end horse logging operation if two horses can move 2000 bf per day then four teams should move eight, factor in your cost and labor and I’m sure that the profit mar gen would be higher with the teams than it would be mechanical! That is if one had enough teamsters lol

[lancek]

Boy it looks like we are getting a lot of new young folks on here! And Michael im 51 and my wife says the same thing so your not alone.

[lancek]

MInk I’m always getting demerit points! And Carl you have a real good point there, thats a big log so those 4×4 uprights are not the strongest in the world ! What was the footage on that log 250 feet? And Taylor there was a post on here of some guy in Alaska that had some steel ones that he pulled behind a cat! My question is how well a scoot would work in this rocky ground around here? We dont get much snow around here but have a lot of hard pack rock would the advantage of the lower draft still exist or would the four cart be better?

[lancek]

Hey Carl that one didn’t go out with too much ease isn’t that the one that broke the upright off? LOL:D

[lancek]

I think what Carl means is they is a right tool for every job the trick is knowing which one works best for the job your doing ! Of course in snow the sled is the best way to use your horses too there best advantage because the sled moves better in snow! But they are times that a scoot will work better in warm weather than a cart and thats in muddy conditions! The least resistance the horse’s encounter the better they will be able to work!

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