[Tim Harrigan]

Can you post a picture of it so we have a better idea of what the problem is? I could be a number of things.

[Tim Harrigan]

Ground skidding a log will create more friction than the same total weight on a sled, scoot or stoneboat. It depends on the surface and lift on the log but it could be 50-60% of the weight of the log rather than 40%. This shows the practical difficulty of matching a buffer which should be fairly predictable with loads that are unpredictable. Of course it is also be difficult to quantify the impact of a buffer just by watching it.

[Tim Harrigan]

goodcompanion;18918 wrote:

Still to go are a canvas horse diaper, a retractable awning, a stowable crate display rack, and lettering and artwork. But at least now we can hit the roads and get some practice.

Erik, this is really great. The craftsmanship is truely impressive. Don’t forget the SMV and I see the tail/brake lights but think about a big bank of flashing LEDs. It can get pretty crazy out on the road.

[Tim Harrigan]

I think if you shoot at them a couple of times and then set out a few scare crows around the edge you could keep them under control. If you use scare crows you will want to move them every couple of days. If they are always in the same place they catch on after a while. If they start losing their fear, shoot at them a couple more times.

[Tim Harrigan]

dlskidmore;18845 wrote:

…I still have the tendency to separate the layers of knowledge. I see book learning and hands-on time as equally important, and I would prefer to learn theory before practice. My quest for book learning does not seem very welcome here.

I am usually on board with theory and I have a pretty systematic approach to most problem solving and learning. It is an important part of understanding how a system should work. In this case, though, the challenge is not in separating layers of knowlege but in the integration of knowledge. What I find most interesting about books on training horses and oxen is not what is in the books but what is not in the books. Pretty much most of the really important stuff. This is not to demean the authors, there are just too many things that have to come into play in just the right way and at just the right time to capture in words.

I guess one reason I decided to work with cattle is that I liked them and I had been around them a lot having a background in dairy. So I thought I understood cattle behavior fairly well…. I had a lot to learn. You can learn to work and train horses and oxen without the theory, but you will not have a meaningful understanding of the theory without working the animals. So I guess for me, it is not that the theory is not welcome, it is just not particularly interesting apart from actually working the animals.

[Tim Harrigan]

I don’t know. Do you think that herbivores and carnivores might be hard wired by evolution in fundamentally different ways? Why do you think it is such a challenge for most everyone to train draft animals in particular?

[Tim Harrigan]

Wow, such a professional video! I think I will have you train Will and Abe after seeing that. Mir war nicht bewusst, dass Sie Deutsch sprechen so gut!

[Tim Harrigan]

Good idea. I will have to make a dead run back to the middle but it will be easier in the long run.

[Tim Harrigan]

Countymouse;18522 wrote:

Sometimes it is helpful to lay out a cut such that most of the cut is a mild easy downhill (say three sides of a square). The fourth side would be a steeper uphill to get back to the start, so you don’t cut at all going uphill.

That’s a good idea. I have one field though where is is uphill on all 4 sides.

[Tim Harrigan]

Half-swaths with a sicklebar mower are not a good idea. You will spend most of the day unplugging the cutterbar. The best thing about the haybines and rotary disc mowers is that they greatly reduced (haybines) or eliminated (rotary disc) plugging of the bar.

[Tim Harrigan]

Countymouse;18490 wrote:

… With the already substantial mechanical losses, it seems paramount that additional mechanical loses be kept to a minimum. Beyond that, I am very curious about replacing the larger 32 inch steel wheels with pneumatic wheels of smaller diameter (maybe 24 inch). As … I am curious why mowers were designed to work at such a fast speed on the part of the horse…

Here is a picture of a mower with pneumatic tires. There could be a couple of things with the wheel diameter and speed. These mowers were designed well over 100 years ago. It would not be necessary to maintain a fast knife speed when clipping grain stubble or grass hay crops that were perhaps not as high yielding as is more common today. This is probably the same cutterbar that was used on some of the old reapers. So maybe the cropping and harvesting practices have changed somewhat.

32 inch wheel diameter with 3 inch knife sections and 50 cutting strokes per wheel revolution allows the mower to advance 100 inches while loading the knives 2 inches for each cutting stroke. By not having the knives fully loaded the knives can accelerate before they begin to cut. This would reduce plugging and maybe helps to clean the bar. And, a faster knife speed would not be free in terms of mechanical resistance (which would increase, along with R&M).

It would be interesting to make some modifications to these mowers and see if there is room for improvement under current conditions, but I can assure you the design parameters that you see in these mowers was neither the result of luck nor by accident.

[Tim Harrigan]

jac;18475 wrote:

Somewhere on this forum I saw a mention of sugar levels dropping in hay. Is sugar higher or lower at night ? I remember grandfather saying he was in the field by half 4 in the morning and done mowing by 10 before it got really hot…. Was the sugar down at that time in the morning ?.. Would Kevins idea of night working be a way to mow hay and still get a quality result and ease the horses also ??..
John

Here is a pdf I found about sugar in hay. Highest sugar content is in the afternoon and drops at night. Seems like starting to mow late in the day into evening would be more in line with this than starting to mow before dawn into morning.

http://plant-materials.nrcs.usda.gov/pubs/idpmstn5581.pdf

[Tim Harrigan]

Yes, I would do the same with that set up. I assumed they were using a bar rake/tedder or a fluffer type tedder. I raked with my steers when they were a year old with one and they handled it just fine. A motorized forecart with a rotary tedder would be fine for 2 as well.

[Tim Harrigan]

Beautiful place you have there.

Mowing is quite a challenge in a number of ways. Probably one of the biggest challenges is that the team has to maintain a speed suitable for mowing and in our experience that is about 3 mph. In our plowing work, the travel speed was less than 2 mph. So while the pulling force for mowing is not generally as great as for plowing, the power demand (force per unit of time) is not much different. For instance, a 700 lbf plow draft at 1.8 mph requires about 3.3 hp. A 400 lbf mowing draft at 3 mph requires 3.2 hp. And it is usually hotter when mowing which puts even more stress on the team.

I have a simple rule-of-thumb for pulling uphill that considers the implement draft, the % slope and the weight of the implement. I guess your mower with rider weighs about 1000 lbs, similar to ours. You probably have some 10% slopes, 1 ft rise for every 10 ft of run. Let’s say your mower draft on level ground is 400 lbf. My rule-of-thumb for mowing up the 10% slope is you are lifting 10% of the weight of the mower for every foot you pull it. So add 10% of the weight of the mower to the normal draft on level ground. So 400 lbf level plus 10% of 1000 lb (100 lbf) equals 500 lbf draft on the uphill pull. A 25% increase in draft. So now, if you hold the 3 mph travel speed, the power requirement jumps to 4 hp. That is a lot of work for a team of two. That’s why I like the 5 ft bar. My friend Peter Herold from Germany was quite surprised at the length of bar we used, I think the 4.25 ft bar is more common over there. That could be because the hilly terrain is pretty common over there as well.

Tedding and raking do not require as much power (draft or speed) with a bar-type side delivery rake/tedder as does mowing. I would tend to go with two and give one a rest with that type of tedder but your team might tell you differently. Their opinion counts more than mine.;) If you are using a rotary tedder they require quite a bit more effort and three might be best.

OK, here is a picture I took of a rotary tedder at HPD 2004 I think. These rotary tedders and rakes have a much greater power requirement than the bar rakes and tedders. Notice that the these rotary tedders are engine powered from the forecart.

[Tim Harrigan]

I will be going to SDAD on the way back from visiting my son in Georgia so I will not be over that way. Look forward to meeting you in VA though.

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