[Tim Harrigan]

I was hoping to see it leaving under that new arch.

[Tim Harrigan]

I use a managed rotational grazing set-up where I restrict access to new pasture with polywire fencing. They have continuous access to a wide lane that includes access to water and a run-in shed and then a narrow lane back to the pasture area. The lanes etc are sort of sacrifice areas, probably 3/4 acre total but they provide plenty of forage in the May-June rapid growth period, probably more than they really need. In the pasture I run parallel strands of polywire, usually only 35 ft apart and advance that for access to fresh pasture, often only advancing 10-15 ft per day. So they get some new pasture every day and then they work the overgrazed sacrifice area.

That restricts access but in a good growing year they get more than they need from the sacrifice area alone. As Carl says, they need work to stay fit. Mine could use more work.

If you are trying to manage both restricted pasture and poor quality hay together you might have to allow pasture access for a short time and then move them to a dry lot for feeding hay. Mine ignore poor quality hay if they can graze even the overworked area.

It is not easy to manage mature steers on pasture and keep them from getting to be overweight. For sure, once they are two years old no longer give them free access to good pasture.

[Tim Harrigan]

You teach them a few things, they teach you a few things. Before you know it the three of you start to look like a team. 🙂

[Tim Harrigan]

I generally agree with most comments. I like the 7018 best, seems to be clearly the best for vertical and overhead. I find it easier to use than the 6011 for instance, DC technique is different from AC. 6013 is easier than the 6011 for most folks who do not weld much. Lays down more steel and less likely to burn through. 6011 can sure blow through rusty crap though.

[Tim Harrigan]

Until steers are two, maybe three years old they can be fed like a beef herd on pasture with free access to feed. After that their nutritional needs are much less and if they have unlimiited access to good pasture they will get fat. Once they are four and older the biggest challenge is to keep them from getting fat on pasture, even with restricted access. If mature steers have free access to good pasture they will eat 3-5 times what they need and never look back. To me, this is a bigger challenge than just letting them run together.

[Tim Harrigan]

Hey Rob, how are those steers coming along. I thought they were testing you a bit but you seemed to have a pretty good handle on them. I assume they will be at the MODA gathering?

[Tim Harrigan]

Just to be clear on my energy numbers, my animal nutrition text lists NRC values for digestible energy for most forage hay and pasture close to 1 Mcal/lb and cereal grains and by-products about 1.5 Mcal/lb. It is interesting that the energy equivalents are about the same for both systems.

[Tim Harrigan]

Yes, labor costs per bf would be greater with the decreased production but machinery ownership and operating would be quite a bit less with drafts. Ownership and operating costs are not particularly difficult to calculate if you have reasonable estimates for machine purchase price, expected annual hours of use, etc. I do not have good estimates for those things. It would be interesting to see how those things net out. At least one or two folks on here have said they had to swim harder to keep above water with the machine-based system than the draft-based system.

[Tim Harrigan]

When I encouraged the comparison of draft animals and tractors/skidders on the basis of energy efficiency I was not thinking in terms of comparing total board feet harvested. I was encouraging the comparison of bf per unit of energy input. By my preliminary ballpark estimate a large team of drafts that eats 2-50 lb bales of bromegrass hay per day consumes about 85 Mcal per day of energy. One gallon of diesel is about 37 Mcal, and an 80 hp tractor/skidder would likely consume about 3 gal per hour or 111+ Mcal per hour. So I am still curious about the energy efficiency of draft animals compared to machines.

[Tim Harrigan]

Carl Russell;15654 wrote:

Knowing what needs to happen, and bringing to that, experience with what can work, and what can go wrong… being able to “SEE” the physical requirements and having a bag of tricks and equipment that can be used to overcome the obstacles is a very creative and expressive process. It is what stimulates me to do this work.

This is what separates us from machine operators. Of course there are artists at the controls of some machines, and I know a couple, but in most cases it is like Mitch mentioned, we have just employed a power unit to overcome with brute engine power what used to take ingenuity.

There is a brimming sense of accomplishment when watching over your shoulder as a huge log rolls up a skid onto your sled, and in front of you through long ribbons are these powerful beasts moving at just the right speed, in just the right direction, with just the right amount of power… stopping at the instant you command. There is an out of body experience of watching, and feeling, a scene unfold, in which you are the intellectual engine making it happen, by what seems to be by pure thought alone.

Carl

Thanks, Carl, for sharing this challenge. And, thanks for taking the time to articulate the meaningful relationship that you share with your team. I, also, find the greatest satisfaction in finding new ways to bring my team to their greatest advantage, and not just by hooking on to big loads and grunting it out. You are perceptive in describing the need to “see the physical requirements” of a task and with that respecting your team enough to bring your experience and patience to bear to ask no more of their physical effort than needed to get the job done. Most folks will find that the trust that their team has in them will grow as they demonstrate their trustworthiness to their team in just the way you so nicely described.

We share that perception and it is exactly why I have made an effort to study and evaluate the forces required in moving loads and the nature of the forces transmitted to the team in the process. My interest has never been how much can a team pull, rather how can we transform their willingness to pull to the greatest advantage. You demonstrated that nicely with your ability to amplify the effort with simple machines like levers, inclined planes and the translation of skidding to less intensive rotational conveyance.

Thanks again for reminding us why there is magic in this work.

[Tim Harrigan]

Dutch Belts are horned, smooth coat, dairy character; Belted Galloways are polled, curly coat, beef breed. I am not familiar with the blue lingo.

[Tim Harrigan]

Sabine: Here is a pdf file with some pics of moving a round bale out to the feeder this morning.

[Tim Harrigan]

On the up side, ash splits really nice for firewood. We have a lot of dead ash in Michigan right now.:(

[Tim Harrigan]

I am not aware of many machines that are 100% efficient in transforming power from linear to rotational. Neither do we expect more power out of a machine than we put in. We usually expect losses from friction, heat, etc. It would help to know how the power of their machine was measured. I would expect to see about 1/2 hp to 1 hp per ox on the input side on a continual basis.

[Tim Harrigan]

I like tongs because they provide a little more lift by pulling more from the center point of the log than with a chain that tends to let the log rotate so the pulling point is higher. And I do not have to fuss around to fish the chain under the log to hitch it.

[Author]

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