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Tim Harrigan
ParticipantIn the pictures I remember the bow diameter was considerably less what we typically see with the same size yoke. I guess maybe 1 inch diameter compared to 2 inches for wood, but they looked to be solid bars, not pipe. So maybe the bow diameter is not quite as important as we might think given a well-fitting yoke and bow.
Tim Harrigan
ParticipantI do not use steel bows but I think they are quite common in Australia. I think there would be some advantages in the ability to fine-tune the fit which is the most important thing. Pipe is also accessible in most places which is an advantage. In North America we are blessed with abundant timber so wood has been widely used. In many parts of the world that is not the case and pipe is a great alternative.
Tim Harrigan
ParticipantGood enough. Rock on!
Tim Harrigan
ParticipantThis disturbance is an opportunity to move forward as a team, so do not set your sight on working to get back to where you were. Don’t think of them as problems or a source of discouragement, it is just a bend in the road. Keep your eye on the goal and move ahead. Keep it simple and work on one thing at a time.
It is not clear what you mean by ‘the only time they ever saw it was when it spooked them’ in reference to the stoneboat. They no doubt saw it when you hooked them to it. Perhaps they did not have a chance to inspect it? I do not think it matters if you take the stoneboat into the paddock or not. More important is how you re-introduce them to it. They need leadership and guidance so do not be rattled by every unexpected turn of events. If YOU are concerned that they will try to run next time they are hitched to the stoneboat and YOU will be more confident in the paddock, that might be best.
Do you have any idea why the chain is a problem? It seems like you might have to go slow with Hermes as far as introducing new things, but don’t let his suspicion determine what you do or do not do. If you back off from a new task or something they would rather not do every time they object, they are probably smart enough to figure out they can drive the team if you let him. You do not need to force them to do something immediately but you have to be smarter than they are.
The rope placement I suggested has importance. If you go from the off-steer halter across the front of the beam and up between the near-ox bow standards it will stay off both steers, it will not get tangled or caught on anything, and there will be little friction to inhibit the flash of satori that Hermes will experience when he starts to run and his head snaps up and back. If a steer can keep his head low he will laugh at you while he is dragging you around the farm. Low is where a bull’s head will be a fraction of a second before he throws you 10 feet in the air or alternatively as he puts his head on your chest and uses you as a slip scraper for digging a trench. So don’t give them that advantage.
So look what Hermes taught you this week: more weight; more stops and clear, consistent direction; great spatial memory; easy introduction to new sights, sounds and implements; calm, focused teamster; use and utility of a halter; clear goal with a plan, strategy and flexible tactics; keep your eye on the ball; keep moving forward.
Hermes will be your favorite.
Me and Will and Abe are off to the woods. The spice of life.
Tim Harrigan
ParticipantRob: Cattle have excellent spatial memory so you can bet they associate the place(s) where they ran (frightened) with uncomfortable memories. So when you get ready to take them across the road with a sled or stoneboat again you may want to do it first in a different place. And, when you get them settled down to that distraction, be aware that those places where they were frightened have special significance for them. They will remember it for a long time. You may find they are uneasy there even when they are not pulling anything. You may think the problem was the stoneboat, they may think the problem is the place. They may not separate that stoneboat noise from that place, they just think of the place as where something reached up out of the ground and tried to grab them. Not guaranteed to be an issue, and I am not suggesting you avoid it, but you will probably see them react to it.
Tim Harrigan
ParticipantEricka: You have a lot of flexibility with that measurement. 2.5 to 3 times the bow width is just a rule of thumb that Tillers developed by looking at the proportional measurements of many old yokes. But it can be longer, for instance if you want to cultivate in certain row widths that are wider than that 2.5 to 3 spacing gives. Or it can vary as with a sliding yoke. So that is somewhat minor compared to the fit of the bow, both the width and depth. That is the where the rubber hits the road and where you want to be a little fussy.
Tim Harrigan
ParticipantIt seems to me the rule-of-thumb is 2.5 to 3 times the bow width.
Tim Harrigan
ParticipantRob:
For clarity, I consider bolting to be a reflexive response to a sudden and unfamiliar stimulus. That has been quite rare in my experience. Running, however, is a learned response and can quickly become a bad habit. It sounds like your team bolted once and might be learning that running is a suitable response to novelty. At six months, when they are learning to pull, they will encounter many new things so you need to be very attentive to keep them under control and introduce new things slowly. A stoneboat on gravel is a big one, but it could be crunching leaves in the fall, muddy or soft ground where footing is strange, or any new implement that you hitch to for the first time.How much are they pulling? They should be pulling a stoneboat with a gross weight of about 250 lbs pretty regularly now so if they are not you should work toward that over the next several weeks. They can pull more for short distances but that would be typical if you can walk for .5 mile or so on an outing. If you are pulling an empty stoneboat made of pine that is pretty light and they will not hesitate to run with it. You want a load that gets their attention but does not discourage them. The goal is to get them to restrain their impulse to run because you are directing them to walk, regardless of the load, not stick them to the ground with a heavy load.
Do you have a halter and lead on them? If not, I would for now until you have confidence that they will not run. If the off steer is the instigator, run a lead from his halter up over the yoke and through the bow of the nigh steer. If he starts to run, dig in and let him jerk his head up and back. He will find it very hard to run in that situation and it will discourage him.
Work on focusing the attention of the steers on your directions, and at the same time refine your observation of them so you learn to see them beginning to ramp up their excitement level and head it off before they slip away. Now is a good time to embed ‘whoa’ deep in their response curve. Take them out and make them stop every 10 feet. Do it thirty times a day. It will only take a couple of days and they will stop on a dime. When you take them out in new situations and you sense they are getting jumpy stop every few steps. Keep them settled down and don’t let them ramp up. When you improve their response and your ability to read them, start exposing them to things that you know will challenge their restraint.
Any time you are going to hook on something new, lead them to it and let them look it over for a few minutes. That will raise their comfort level. If the off steer remains jumpy, introduce a new implement over a few days time. Look it over one day, hitch and take a few steps the next day and so on until it is not a big deal. Cattle can ignore just about anything they are accustomed to, but they distrust novelty. If the gravel road is near the hitching post, brush them and let them see and hear you drag the stoneboat across the road for a few days. That should settle them down some, but you will still have to be ready when they are hitched and come up on the road again.
You may want to put the off steer on the near side where you can have a little closer contact with him. That may help focus his attention and improve your ability to work with him.
Running is near the top of my list of bad habits because it is so dangerous for everyone involved. You need to think through this, rely on your instincts, be deliberate and do not react in anger. You have some time and a lot of options.
Tim Harrigan
ParticipantYes, Bivol, ventilation with fresh air is critical. I would rather tie a pair of calves outside under a tree than keep them closed up in a barn with no air exchange. Closed barns have killed more calves than cold weather ever has.
Tim Harrigan
ParticipantRod: As long as they can get out of the wind and have a dry place to lay down they do not need to move around to stay warm. Calves or small steers will lose heat faster than large animals. Mine have a three-sided run in shed facing south, prevailing winds from the west. There are times when it can be below zero and if there is no wind they will be laying outside, covered with frost, rather than inside. They like the run-in shed though, I keep it clean and bedded with waste hay that I pick up from around the round bale feeder. Bottom line, if they are clean, dry, out of the wind, have feed and water, cold alone is not an issue.
Tim Harrigan
ParticipantCarl, great story. When my steers work with me like that I am just so thankful to have the opportunity. I am continually surprised at how intellegent cattle are when they want to be.
Tim Harrigan
ParticipantMatt: The Animal Science Dept at MSU published a few guidelines a while back for dairy cattle. Might help you get started.
Tim Harrigan
ParticipantOne of my favorites is ‘Daylight in the Swamp’ by Robert Wells. Interesting and amusing history of logging across the Great Lakes Region in the mid- to late-1800’s. Things like ‘loggers smallpox’, the malady some would wake up with after a night drinking and if they came up short in a brawl, red pox on the chest from the victor standing on his chest with caulked boots. Stealing public timber by cutting ’round forties’, the forty acres they purchased and all the forties around it. One lumber baron and his big dog Ceasar, if the baron got into an argument, which he always did, he would command Ceasar “piss on him, piss all over him”, and Ceasar did. Great stuff.
Tim Harrigan
ParticipantVicki, your use of the term ‘back’ makes me think you will measure the length of the share. The bottom width is a measure perpendicular to the direction of travel, so the distance from the landside to the end of the cutting edge or heel of the bottom.
November 3, 2009 at 3:04 pm in reply to: To All Who Try To Sell Others On The Idea Of Sustainable Farming, Forestry. #54764Tim Harrigan
ParticipantCarl brings up an important distinction here regarding the notion of economic sustainability. Certainly this is important if the goal is to develop an enterprise that will support your family, and it is often thrown in the discussion to balance diverse views, e.g. grazing versus confinement dairies. But while there will not always be unanimous agreement regarding sustainable management of our natural resources at least we have some objective standards by which to determine if we are moving in the right direction, measures of soil erosion has been noted as one. The economic issue is a moving target, different for all of us, and in reality many of us invest in activities that we see as more sustainable (rather than the least cost option) as our conscience and view of the world grows in order to stay directionally correct. The scale of what many of us do makes the economic component difficult to assess. Same with social justice. I can only do so much. So our assessment of an industry is quite a bit different from actions on a personal level.
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