A little draft horse equipment at auction

[blue80]

There is an auction coming up in buffalo, wy.

It seems several sets of harness, a forecart, cultivator, missouri garden plow, eveners, collars, double trees, croups, collar pads, etc are available.
I’d like to attend so I can have a good excuse to get out of working; my wife has become accustomed to call these outings “dates,” poor gal.

My first question is, what is the easiest way in an auction setting to “know” what size is a given set of harness? I believe I could muddle through the condition/quality of the harness, but am a little apprehensive about purchasing harness that “won’t fit” Having said that, we don’t even have a draft team yet, but this is an excuse for me to ask what to look for when I see harness for sale….

Also, how does one know if a collar past its “due date” I figure I am looking for smooth density of padding, no rips and tears, but anything else to watch for?

Also some dairy goat equipment and 2 goat harnesses for those interested….

http://www.brianniaauction.com Jan. 16

Thanks, Kevin

[Scott G]

@blue80 14339 wrote:

My first question is, what is the easiest way in an auction setting to “know” what size is a given set of harness? I believe I could muddle through the condition/quality of the harness, but am a little apprehensive about purchasing harness that “won’t fit” Having said that, we don’t even have a draft team yet, but this is an excuse for me to ask what to look for when I see harness for sale…

Kevin, measuring the hames is a good place to start. That will give you the collar size that the previous owner used. Then looking at the harness see how it was adjusted. Note where all of the adjustment buckles and corresponding punched holes are relative to each component. Is everything stretched out as far as it can go? Is it in the middle? Short? You get the picture…

For a comparison, my boy that I use single for skidding is 16hh, ~1600# and I use a 23″ collar, 24″ with the pad would be better.

You need a rail where you can stretch the harness out full length to inspect it. Start bending leather and looking for cracks. If the thing is as dried out as an old boot that you would find at the dump I would move on. If it has any mold, excessive dirt/oil/grease the same would apply. Once harness leather gets like that it seems it never comes back good even when cleaned/oiled. Check tugs/traces really carefully. Much of that type of harness in your and my region comes from old barns that haven’t been cleaned out since grandpa died of old age 20 years ago. Stuff goes south pretty fast if you don’t take care of it routinely.

When I first got back into this in 1990 I was scavenging the local draft auction for used harness and parts. Long story short I broke alot of leather harness that I thought was workable harness. I ended up taking every harness and all spare parts I had gotten and boxed ’em up and sold them at the auction for salvage parts with a disclaimer on it. I then purchased a brand new nylon harness that I still use today for logging.

@blue80 14339 wrote:

Also, how does one know if a collar past its “due date” I figure I am looking for smooth density of padding, no rips and tears, but anything else to watch for?http://www.brianniaauction.com Jan. 16

Thanks, Kevin

Buy a new collar(s) for your horse/team. To me collars are the same as worn boots. They conformed to the old user and are awfully hard to get a good fit for the new user. All of the pressure from your load is transferred through that collar. Be kind to your horse and start off with a new one.

I would caution you when purchasing old harness, if you’re new to driving and you’re horse becomes “undressed” in a hurry from a busted harness pulling a load there is a good chance that it won’t be a good day for all involved.

You might be able to get a really good deal on a forecart there. Just give it a really good once over long before the auctioneer steps up to it…

These type of auctions are a blast and a great place to network if nothing else.

I’d love to join you up there but 1) daughter working market steer at National Western Stock Show that weekend, 2) Draft Show at same, and 3) wifes b-day weekend.

I’m surprised they are holding this auction during Stock Show…

Take care and have fun.
-Scott

[grey]

Used Harness 101 (if I may be so bold)

I am a frugal person. I have never yet bought a new harness, though I’ve been on the cusp many times. The learning curve for buying used leather tack can be pretty steep and pretty expensive in the long run. A hidden weak spot in a leather strap can ruin your day in a hurry. And usually these things don’t show themselves until you are already in the middle of something unpleasant. A broken hame strap or breast strap at the wrong moment can wreck a wagon, a horse or a teamster.

I don’t recommend that a person just starting out with driving/working horses get a used harness. However, things being what they are, that’s who usually buys them. I recognize that and with it in mind, offer up this advice:

Make sure what you are buying is made of real whole leather and not “chopped, formed and pressed leather” which is to real leather as Spam is to a filet mignon. Technically both made of meat, but…

When you are checking the leather, the weakest point is usually right under a conway buckle that hasn’t been moved in some time. If the hardware is iron-based and not bronze or brass, it will corrode. The corrosion traps moisture against the harness and rots it out in astoundingly little time. Check anywhere it looks like the hardware spent a substantial amount of time at one size setting and check any sharp bends, such as where the back straps pass through the ring on the hames.

I’m handy with a stitching awl and don’t mind making a few repairs, depending on the price and overall condition of the harness. However, deal-breakers for me are: tugs not in excellent condition, back straps and spider not in excellent condition, particularly the hip straps, which are a common weak point, and the leather that holds the rings on the ends of the britchen. Anymore, I don’t like mending any of the spider because I don’t want any splices mucking things up.

If you want to make your own repairs, invest in one of those stitching awls with the spool of waxed thread that stashes in the handle, and a plain awl for making the hole that the needle goes through. I don’t like making the hole with the needle that comes in the stitching awl. I have a single-prong awl and also one that makes four holes in a row. Get a skiver so you can make nice smooth beveled splices that won’t be as prone to catching on things. I don’t much like rivets in general, but they can be handy if you need to tack something together quickly and sturdily in a hurry. You can always stitch it later. You will want #9 copper rivets and burrs. Set of hole punches (I don’t have use for those revolving ones). Rivet set for your #9 rivets.

Some things I will not mend and only make or purchase new, but are not deal-breakers: hame straps, quarter straps and breast straps. I usually expect to replace hame straps and quarter straps and keep that in mind when deciding what I am willing to pay for a used harness. If the breast strap looks at all sketchy, I replace it as well.

Don’t gloss over the bridles. My mares have smaller, more refined heads and many “draft size” bridles can’t be easily adjusted to fit them. Due to the design, there’s only so many holes you can punch. In particular, I dislike the bridles that require a bit loop strap to attach the bit to the bridle, as they never fit my mares. If they fit your horse’s heads, however, they can be a more frugal design as you can replace a bit loop much more cheaply than the entire cheekpiece, which usually includes the blinders. Make sure the crown of the bridle is in good shape. Check the little straps that the throatlatch buckles to. Those can become weakened, particularly if the sidecheck loop is attached to it, and the throatlatch is what keeps the bridle on the head. Depending on the design of the bridle, the entire crown piece might need to be replaced if the throatlatch billet gives way and you aren’t handy with an awl.

A lot of the older harnesses you find at auction were made to fit the old farm chunk mixed breed all-purpose horses. They typically took about a 21″ hame and weighed about 1400 pounds. If you swap out the hames for something larger and let the straps all the way out, you can often fit them on today’s larger drafts, but I find that the britchen is always too small, often about 48″ from ring to ring. I like a britchen that is about 56″. A too-small britchen means that your quarter straps will likely chafe the loin.

Look for previous repairs. I don’t like seeing rivets that go all the way through the belly band, the britchen or the back band because I don’t want rivets touching my horse at any of those points.

This might not be the right thread for this, but it seemed like a good opportunity. Hopefully others will add to it. Or maybe it should be its own thread.

[grey]

I find that the pigeon wing blinders don’t get snagged as easily and therefore last longer. I like em, even if it does leave me open for ribbing about “going mule”.

My favorite type of bridle is a split-face bridle with a non-adjustable ring crown (custom-sized to fit my horses), pigeon wing blinders, with a separate strap stitched to the crown to hold the sidecheck loops. Bit loops so I can use a military elbow bit if I choose, since the cheek pieces are usually too wide to use any kind of bit other than a ring bit. No noseband. Maybe a few brass spots…

Shoutout to Samson Harness, BTW.

[blue80]

Thank you for the great advice

Kevin

[LostFarmer]

I happen to like my mule bridles as well. Just a personal thing. LF

[Does’ Leap]

Just a quick question related to this thread. we bought used harness from someone we knew and we replaced the hame straps then (2 years ago) I’ve noticed that they have some cracks in them and am wondering if folks just change them out regularly since they are such a small but important piece. If so, how often or at what point? Our leather looks generally good but there are cracks…

Kristan

[grey]

I bought some hame straps from a particular (rather prolific) company that uses inferior leather. The straps looks nice on the rack but there’s a glossy side and a matte side to the hide they use and it’s the glossy side that develops cracks in short order. Leather should be supple and should give. If it cracks, it’s not the right leather for that job.

I don’t order leather parts from that company any more.

[LostFarmer]

I have a set of hame straps with nylon sewn to leather. I really like them as the leather makes them pull easier and the nylon tough. If you want to see a case of the feces hitting the rotating air circulation device then break a hame strap. Especially the the lower. About the time the belly band hits the flank fit hits the shan. Been there done that. Now I replace the hame straps when the start to show any wear. It isn’t like you break them when the horses are pulling a light load. It is a bam and the harness is peeled of them in no time. LF

[Gabe Ayers]

We use a heavy duty hame fastener from Chupp’s Blacksmith Shop in Fredericksburg, Ohio. They can be bought through most good harness shops. They’re a machined steel version of the light binder type that are adjustable with the light chain. We all use the pulling logging hames with the double hame strap loops, so we use the Chupp fastener and a long nylon hame strap over that. It has to be the heavy duty binder type, the light one will break when you are moving any heavy logs or loads.

They are around $20.00 a piece, but on really heavy loads an stout horses they will pay for themselves in not breaking at a critical time and not having to buy new hame straps so often.

I saw a pair hame fasteners the other day made out of stainless steel. I just hate it when my apprentices have better gear than me…naw, just kidding I am proud that they have the best equipment they can find.

~

[Gabe Ayers]

BF,

I am not sure where an online source for these hame fasteners may be, I will look into it.

These are at least 20 years old now, hard to admit that, but they are.

These devices along with lever bits are important changes in equipment we made years ago to keep working without breakdowns or runaways.

I hope you can see the fastener in this photo, I will get back to you on a source for them on line. As you can see we are not using a regular hame strap over the top of the heavy duty fastener. Must have taken it off as unnecessary to repair something else that broke or wore out while working.
It is not necessay obviously. I also will say that on some really heavy loads we have had the D shaped loop on the bottom of the hame break, but that is usually related to the rig being fitted a little loose. We keep extra D loops in the truck, just in case.

Sincerely,

~

[LStone]

I don’t use them but a similar item is on page 41 of the Meader Supply Catalog. You can order by telephone they will drop ship to you. Hope this helps.

http://www.meadersupply.com/Publish/catalogs/tack_catalog/Tack-Catalog.pdf

LStone

[blue80]

Found this on craiglist:
2 sets of harness- 4 horses worth- 5 bridles with two bits, 6 spreaders, 4 trace ends, hames no collars $500.00 delivered to my door. Nice retired horse logger in Colorado, says they have life left in them for farm work….

Have 15 more pics if anyone cares to give me best opinion. I don’t want junk as mentioned above, but don’t have discretionary income to bring new d-ring harness out west….
But purchasing unseen is probably also a crapshoot….

But if I save some money maybe I could afford some of those fancy suffolks and collars like Mr. Rutledges pics.:cool:

Thanks in advance,
Kevin

[Scott G]

Who’s the CO horse logger, Kevin?

[blue80]

Scott:

His name is Ray Steele, located in Pinecliffe

I think he said he “used to” log with horses…

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