Help needed to put Hydraulic Brakes on Training Cart

[Tom S]

I am working with a 3 yr old donkey, Smokey. Right now, I am using a scoot made from a metal pallet with some pipe runners on it. If I need brakes, as heavy as it is, I step up on it and we slow down real quick.

As soon as I get good control of Smokey, I would like to get him hitched to my cart so I can hit the road, but first I would like to have some stopping power in case I need it. I would appreciate suggestions on the least expensive method and best way to fabricate a hydraulic brake system for the cart I purchased a few years ago. Here are some pictures of the bottom of my cart.

The center section of the axles is homemade with the axles welded into the dropped center section by about 4″. The axles diameter is 1.69″ with the inner seal and bearing being the same diameter. I haven’t been able to match the 5 lug, 14 inch wheels to anything current but it does have a very large center and a very thick grease cap that appears to be of a type off of an older model (probably 50’s vintage or older) truck or ag trailer. If I could identify the axles and find matching backing plates and drums, I could simply weld a backing plate mounting bracket on them and be done. I have 1-3/4 inches to play with at the back of the hub. The width of the tires center to center is 60″ with the current axles.

What would be the best type brakes to use if I can’t identify the current axles and hubs? I am thinking that I could buy all the parts from a automotive recycling yard, if I knew what most people are using it would help me select a better option. Would it better if I got some sort of straight axle with a drop to it, cut it to length and turn it upside down. I don’t need any heavy hardware. I would prefer some compact car or truck so I can stay with 14″ rims.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Tom

[karl t pfister]

Hay Tom, !/st thing brakes on a cart that light will at best lock up ,that will not guarantee stopping . The stopping comes from training , the brakes can be an aid to that end .

The easiest brakes to fabricate are I think a fiction type on the tire, sort like the old stage coaches with a lever , sounds like you are looking for something slicker , but those work if you build in an adjustment to tighten . I believe some of the Pioneer carts or wagons have this ,they might be able to supply parts ? good luck karl

[Tom S]

Thanks, Carl

My main concern is to keep him in check as he speeds up from a spook. Hopefully, I won’t have to lock them. Otherwise on his ground driving he does great and listens well. He was a rescue donkey stabled all his life until 6 mos ago and his muscles are still developing. The cart is heavy enough that I don’t think he is going to far with it if it did lock up.

I work by myself. I thought I had him trained enough to put him on the cart without brakes, but he showed me he had other ideas. I am working him in the round pen and I had him hooked up to the cart and did fine for about an hour until something suprised him and he sort of “lost it”. He took off, we crashed when he got a shaft caught in a panel and I hit the ground. I really don’t want to do that again. We both came out without any scrapes and nothing tore up. I want to keep it that way.

As you said, I would like to have a “slicker” set of brakes, but I may have to go with the friction type. So far, I have looked at the Pioneer carts, but the brakes are going to be a little pricey. I was hoping someone has put some on from a car that I could copy. I got the tools and I can weld most anything, but a few extras ideas could make the differance on a “cabbaged” set of brakes compared to a “slick” set.

I have an old wagon with the friction type that I can copy if need be.

[Rod]

Hi Tom

I have built friction brakes for a few vehicles and if done right are just as good or better than the mechanical brakes that Pioneer sells and a lot less noisy. I have the pioneer brakes on my for-cart and they squealed a lot and did not lockup evenly. The best set I built myself has a pulley and heavy spring arrangement to provide some softness to the pedal and provide adjustment. The brake pad is made of a wood sandwich with a piece of rubber cow mat in the center. This has good friction and locks the wheels up well.
The attached photo shows the Brake beam and the return springs. The pedal spring is a HT fence spring and is located in front of the wagon along with the cable and pulleys which give the mechanical advantage needed to put enough pressure on the brake beam.. Sorry I do not have any better photos of that part.

[Tim Harrigan]

Rod, I like that. Can you post a few more pics with some more details showing how it is constructed, the brake pedal, etc?

[Tom S]

Rod,

I appreciate the pictures. I like the idea of the springs you have on it. I sure wish I could see the whole setup, but I will have to use some imagination on rest of it. If I don’t get any better ideas with the wheel brakes, it is a good idea and it may be the best direction to go.

If you ever get any more pictures I would appreciate looking at them.

Thanks,
Tom

[Rod]

Do you know how the retrieve drafts for reply’s. I spent a long time typing up how I built the brakes and then lost it by a missed keystroke but noticed an auto save window was appearing from time to time as I constructed the narrative. If not I will do it over again later.

[Tom S]

I tested the text to see if it would auto save which it did. I looked around in the website to see if I could figure it out and the only way I could get it back was with the undo arrow. I wish I could help, but I don’t know the program. If I write a lot, I write it up in word and copy and paste so I don’t loose it. I too have lost a lot of text so I went to a differant method.

I went backward and lost all of the above and had a blank slate when I came back to this screen. In the left hand bottom corner of this box, it said “restore content of box”. I clicked on it and the above came back.

[Rod]

I sold the wagon with the brakes on it so I can not get more photos but will try and explain how it was built.

The brakes were on a four wheel hitch wagon I built so I was able to set the frame up to receive the brake arm when I put it together. This is how it went:

The brakes worked on the back wheel on the rear of the tires so the thrust on the brake arm when engaged was upward. The brake arm was a 2×6 which fit in slots in the wagon frame. Stop blocks were glued and screwed to the 2×6 inside the frame to keep it aligned on the wheels. The brake pads as mentioned were made of a piece of cow mat sandwiched between the 2×6 and a piece of ¾” plywood and through bolted to keep the parts in place. The wood, rubber sandwich provides good friction from the rubber to rubber contact with the wheel and the wood part wears down the match the rubber profile as the brakes wear it. The pad and all the parts are easily replaced if you should wear them out which would take a lot of use to do. Above the brake arm you will see a caster in the photo. This keeps the arm from chattering or breaking as the brake contact with the wheel exerts upward force on the arm during operation. Two springs shown in the previous photo keep the brake arm away from the wheels when the brakes are not actuated.

A stranded cable is attached to the center of the arm and run through pulleys to the front of the wagon with a turnbuckle in line (for adjustment) to the brake pedal setup. Initially I used a boat trailer winch mounted beside the seat as the brake actuator but found it inconvenient to operate when I was driving so I changed it to a lever and then again to a pedal located in the center of the floor in front of the seat. This pedal shaft which extend through the floor is built of ¾” pipe which pivots at the floor level in two steel bushings made from 1” pipe welded to a mounting plate. To make the pedal operate by pushing the top away from the driver sitting behind it I mounted a pulley on the front frame bulkhead and ran the brake cable through it to turn the pull direction around. In addition I rigged a couple of extra pulleys underneath to provide a block and tackle arrangement so as to provide a 2:1 pedal force advantage. Also this setup has a heavy spring in the cable line to soften the brake action and pedal feel.

The additional photo below shows the front of the wagon with the original winch, the center lever which was later change to the pedal setup which worked the best.

[Rod]

BTW I like your donkey and cart. He looks like a mammoth? And the cart design looks nice and light but rugged enough to do some hauling. Are the runners made of steel pipe?

Looks like you are not using a bit but just the halter. I might try that with my donkey.

[Donn Hewes]

Hi Tom, I am just starting to work with my three year old Mammoth Jack. It is a lot of fun. I think we spoken on the phone once this summer. I added hydraulic brakes to one of my carts, but I bought new hubs and parts from a carriage maker. The parts were expensive, but it made nice brakes. I wanted the brakes to aid horses in bringing heavy loads down a hill. I hope you won’t mind a small suggestion on the harness. His tug needs to be freed up from the harness so it can come off the hames at a good angle (90 degrees). The angle he is at now will make it uncomfortable on his neck. That is a nice looking donkey.

[Tom S]

Rod,

Thanks for the lenghty reply on the brakes. I sat down yesterday in my barn by the training cart to see if I could make room for a set of pressure brakes. I have the room and plenty of pipe and rod, but yet I am not sure just how I going to do it. Reading your reply help me with some ideas if I decide to go that direction. Thanks for putting the time in to reply.

Yes, my donkey just makes it into the Mammoth category. I measured him the other day and he is a fraction from being 14.3hh. He is a puppy dog and probably the only reason I can get by training him to drive, as I am sure you all can tell, I am an amateur at driving. I have been around equines all my life, but never did any driving. I am working him about an hour every day with the metal pallet. Someone gave this metal pallet and I decided I needed a drag so I modified it some. It has flat metal on the bottom that made natural runners. I only had to slightly modify the metal runners by cutting back the support on one end and tapered the flat runner on one end so they would not dig into the ground. Being the runners were really wide, the sled did not wobble from side to side and not stay in a straight line, I welded ¾ pipe to the runners, to include the taper and it drives straight. I did grind off some of the sharp edges and round the front top so if we would not get hung up as easily.
I do have a bit in his mouth, but it is hard to see since the rings are small. It was the bit I started him when I started him under saddle. It worked so I used it. I didn’t have a head stall and driving bit to fit him and as gentle as he is, I didn’t rig up any blinders. He does see me and he does anticipate a little, but overall, he is doing his job. I am sure he would turn well without the bit. He flexes really well, but I am not sure I could get him stopped. He stops really well without the drag in the back, but there is still some fear factor with the drag so I prefer the bit.

[Tom S]

@Donn Hewes 30692 wrote:

Hi Tom, I am just starting to work with my three year old Mammoth Jack. It is a lot of fun. I think we spoken on the phone once this summer. I added hydraulic brakes to one of my carts, but I bought new hubs and parts from a carriage maker. The parts were expensive, but it made nice brakes. I wanted the brakes to aid horses in bringing heavy loads down a hill. I hope you won’t mind a small suggestion on the harness. His tug needs to be freed up from the harness so it can come off the hames at a good angle (90 degrees). The angle he is at now will make it uncomfortable on his neck. That is a nice looking donkey.

Yes, I believe we did talk about some harness you had. I took one of my harnesses (and pieces) I had and decided I would use it until I get my donkey going.

ANY SUGGESTIONS ARE APPRECIATED. As you can see, I am not a teamster. At one time, you could give me a wild mustang, and I could get him started. I have started a lot of them under saddle, but I am out of my element here. Of course my body is beat up now, so I decided I needed a new hobby. I wasn’t sure how to set up any of the gear, so I started putting it on. I had to find several pieces of straps to get it all together and wasn’t sure it would even work. Those saddle loops looked like a good place to put the tugs, so in they went. Now that I know they don’t belong there, I’ll take them out.

Thanks for the info about the brakes, but I may have to go a differant direction than getting them from a carraige maker. Not in my budget right now.

Thanks again,
Tom

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